Thank you Nadine for joining us today. Can you say a little about who you are and where you're from?
Nadine: So hi, I'm Nadine and I'm studying Computer Science here.
Can you say a little bit about your interest in computing comes from?
Nadine: Okay. So this one's kind of unconventional, I guess. It. So originally like as I when I was growing up, I really just wanted to job that has like a positive impact on people's lives. For most of my life, I actually want to be a doctor because I felt like medicine was the best way to do that but then as I grew older I realised I didn't want to just be doing like the diagnosing. I kind of wanted to make solutions that could help or predict early stuff like that.
And then, Up and a few years into my high school. I did computer science. I didn't do it for IB but I did it just all age with this. Have been like teenager. Yeah, teenager teenager for you dude, I did some computer science before that middle school as well, right?
But I didn't, I didn't take it. Appreciate seasons nor ID, I just sort of did it in the middle. And I really liked how it was like logical and it sort of like you could like put your ideas and get an output and it was like kind of like reading and or writing, but like you can get something out of it like immediately, that's what it felt like.
And then I started reading up. I like to read a lot of like articles and research. So I started reading up and I I came across this one specific article because I'm not forget this one. It was about, it was Google research, actually, and they don't research on diabetic, retinopathy, Um and how they were doing it in India and it, they basically used AI to quickly detect diabetic retinoxin like seconds which was a really big problem in that region because of it being late like detected.
And then i realised how useful computer science and different like engineering fields could be for healthcare and different like areas in general. And but my main interest is healthcare. So that was really well. Got me into computer science because it felt like it could really revolutionary that like feels.
And I want to be part of that looking at like retina scans. Okay. Yeah. So image, yeah, what's the word image processing? Yes. Yeah, it was like taking the image of the eye and then they basically trained the on a data set at any were able to pick it up in like seconds, which don't usually, because of that.
Like because India's huge, There's just so many people that they don't have time for doctors to see all of them in time to diagnose them. So it was really like, yeah, it was really amazing. So I was really amazing and I read up. There was other one ones I'm like, Heart disease and like lymphoma as well.
And yeah, it was just I was really amazed by it and then I was like a computer science But you didn't study at Your final part of school. High school, you studied? I did. Well, I did. I'd be so it was like the six subjects. I did basically the generic like engineering out so hitch on math.
Hitch off physics. He chill out and then SL Psychology like my other stuff English. And Oh, you Another one. But yeah. So and then I guess is this point when you're applying to university you kind of I guess you'd already kind of decided before then that you were Thinking of studying, computer science.
Yeah, so, I mean, I picked the engineering around, It just I didn't really like the computer science in IB because it was just too. Like they never really did application base things. It was more theoretical. So it would just not for me. And at the time, I hadn't really solidified, my interesting computer science that much.
So, I went into a more like general engineering me type thing because I knew I'm was interested in Medtech by. I didn't know whether it was a software or hardware. So I didn't want to like, box myself in, Um, but yeah, but because I picked, obviously, he shot map and he chilled physics.
It was Missing for computer science. But yeah, no here. Now, you. So you're right here. Three years ago, 2020. We were just going to lock down. Yeah. And so, what was your experience the first year? Like how did that go? I mean, we came for like a few. I came to pick up my like biometric residency permit, because if I don't think that'll have to read like renew it and then I literally left the day, like I was in the airport the day they were announcing lockdowns think that I love fast enough, but I was so hopeful because the university was sending that we were gonna like, oh, do stuff in person else like so hopeful and then it was like, no.
But think about, I like left fast enough. So Let's see, one, but you spent most of most of us remote in Egypt. No and nearly anyway, right. So, So that, I mean that, I guess you've done some because all your high, your, the last latter part, your high school would have been online.
Yeah, the last year like from like, Like whatever. Look march of the last year, was only right. So you kind of is a continuation of The night mess scenario. It's a beginning of COVID. Yeah. Okay. And then I think you did as you did someone intentionship in your first year.
Yes. Yeah. So can you tell us a bit about how you found that like what the obstacles who faced were and how you ever came? Yeah. So I was like applying to general internships because I remember when I first came in first year, I guess I didn't know that it was quite, like, comment to try and applying for you.
I thought I'm, I wouldn't have enough experience at that time, but then I realised that a lot of people were saw, was looking, why not at least get some experience. So, I applied quite a few and then I actually think I was doing Imago then, so I remember I applied to arm because basically Susan had sent a message on this chord telling us about the opportunity.
And I remember, I done, I think intro to computer architecture and I was really interested in it. It wasn't something I was interested in before. But back to taking that course it like, take my interest. Also talking. You want? Why not? Apply. So yeah, I apply and I got the internship.
So I've been and that was a remote internship, I guess? Yes, That was a remote Christian. So you were what you doing and as part of that internship, we were So for, I continued also my second year. So it's also. So basically my main area was cloud computing, which I don't really studying even uni.
But it was because I did. A volunteer and experience in uni. For like software engineering. And in that one, I got experience with WS like computes. So that's what the reason. Why would you say about Lawrence? Who was the volunteering for, oh, it was called plaque. First impact that car of used to be a student.
Here and then when he left he did the volunteering I found out on volunteer, hope I remember. I should want to do my volunteering. And I saw that there was a software engineering opportunities, so I was like, oh, why not get experience? Um, especially since it's difficult that I didn't know.
If I could get an internships I was like I've got some experience as well. Also helping someone like non-profits So yeah, I did that. And with that I got experience with like AWS and Docker and stuff like that And I guess that's what peak the interest of my manager.
When I was doing the interview. So then I ended up actually well, both nittorships were cloud computing. So it's probably the expense of cloud that was more important rather than I'm. So this common misunderstanding with arm is that people think it's Hardware company. Oh yeah, I do a lot of hardware but yeah, there's a lot of software as well.
Yeah. Like, a mine, was not hardware at all. Like, I mean, I, when you apply it to ask you like, what your main interest is. So, I was like, I like the architecture but I don't see myself doing it long-term. So when I was applying, I said, I want higher level more software based, and so, yeah, mine was fully cloud computing, like so, my first year I was doing tests, basically was going from AWS to GCP.
Because I had experience with AWS, so Well, they were migrating my from one to the other. Yeah, they were like testing. So they wanted to test virtual machines both on, like, Amazon computer and Google ones. And I was basically doing the testing and running different ones in building them.
And then in my second year, is also the continuing and there was a new launch. So I was like doing different things with Google Cloud Platform from basically, right, It so women. That's so I guess I could experience to set you up. You learn a lot. Yeah, I mean we don't do any cloud computing.
Do you distributed? Yeah, I did distribute systems and nothing here systems, but But we don't do cloud like, you know how distributed systems work, but it's not. You don't get any experience with GCP or AWS actually implementing. Yeah, stuff in. Yeah. So yeah, exactly. Like I get the theory, you get the theory from that but you never actually go ahead and implement like you make your own dummy version on a small scale, but yeah.
Right. Okay. Um, so this is this p, is this Pug? Is this this can you tell us it? Can you tell us what petug is? Yeah. Time undergraduate Program. So basically I got it in my first year so the way it works is I do a summer internship, every summer.
And then during the year, I work as a wonder like a part-time undergrad. So it's like eight hours a month. Um, Yeah, but it depends on your team. I don't do a lot of work with my team outside of my internships, but I do like a lot of the training that I need to do other teams, you could get in contact with them to do some work.
It, depending on your team Is it kind of a zero hours or arrangement where because you're studying you don't have to commit to spending or do you have to stand 8 hours every week minimum? Yeah, it's eight hours every month, every month. Sorry. Yeah. I was every month, you do more, if you want it or is it?
And I think it's cut that eight. You could technically you like if things happen, they allow you to not do the eight because they know you universities special time but you're not encouraged to do more because Just legally, right? Shouldn't be especially for me as an international student. I don't think legally, I can't as well But we should say nerves as an international student you have the right to work here in the UK has part of your degree while you're studying.
Yeah. But just a specific hour like while I'm studying during the year, I have like a limit of hours. So And there's a conflicted interest in that if you're suddenly like failing, all your exams. Yeah you've got work and that's not good. Yeah, not not performing at work because you're, you know, vice versa.
So, And that was in first year and you came back into second year, which was returning to normal. Yeah. Stuff face to face. Oh, I did it all I can Cambridge. So in the second year, I did my internship in Cambridge in person So I got to go to the server rooms and stuff like that But yeah, second year was fully imperson.
It was just more like continuation just because I was continuing with the cloud stuff. Just a little bit different. Did you move groups or same group, right? Okay. And then, And we've whisked through with through second year. And so, And when you are applying to arm, Right, right. Beginning in first year.
What's obstacles did you face in terms of Getting into views and then performing well in interviews to get the job offers that you got because I guess you applied to other places. Yeah. I mean, Honestly the hardest thing is like your competing against all these people and like a lot of them, some of them have been doing this for so many years and for me I hadn't done it.
And my last few years It's like most of my experience. I'd covered in like the first semester of like introduction to like computer science are programming whatever that course was called. So it was like I didn't have much experience beyond that point. That's why I always like get the experience with the volunteering or with Imago Um, so i feel like this this struggle was like Some companies even though they don't advertise it that way, do expect you to have quite a lot of experience.
Yeah, even though the advertisers, as we do not expect to tell experience, it's not always true. And so it's like just applying to a lot and then sometimes your area like my area of expertise Aligns with what they need. And I guess I got lucky in that Like with arm, that's what?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean I don't know if it's deliberate or or I don't know. It's kind, it's difficult. It's not because the company is want to be. Attracted wider pool of candidates as possible, but in reality, if they're getting of all the people that applying to them have got experience then You're not going to do very well.
You don't have any experience, it's not. We're not saying we will reject you but you're going to have some stiff competition to compete with. And so having some experience like well the voluntary work and also doing in the next stuff here helped Up in. So in so you've been doing different stuff in nice to return to doing stuff face to face.
Yes, having that experience of working in an actual office with actual people. Yeah, for a zoom window a lot taller than my imagination. Whatever. For the first time I was like, wow, you're so tall and I'm just like there. But it looks like the same size as neon, it's green, but they really were not.
So, sometimes as the opposite that, I mean, we see people on television or on YouTube or or online, you think they're really tall. And you meet in the person. They're actually small. Yeah, I guess they're like, this were really long so with the torso it was, like, the legs made up for the high.
Good. Okay, so you carried on with, I mean, I guess can be opportunity to go back to Was not one to be. I want to be missed, because you kind of already got that relationship up and running. Yeah. Saved you having to apply to other places? Yeah, exactly. I looked at other places just have more experience to see what mug that environment was like.
But yeah. And then so we're into third year, so you come back after two years of study and two summer internships.
What did you do for your finally, a project? Um, so I did it with visa and I did it for Basically it was NLP base, so natural language processing and it was predicting how a reader would feel when they read the piece of text. Um, so you yeah, it was basically meant to there's something called Um, For the Like, Both of the word.
Not sentiment. No trauma. I forgot the word, basically, when you read something that's really negative, you can get indirectly traumatised. Um, and it happens to a lot to like doctors of people medical fields, like a lot of Therapists get this problem. When they hear a lot of stories about traumatic events.
They get indirectly by Kerry Strong. That's one. They get indirectly traumatised. So Um, basically it, the goal was too like, predict, when basically, from texts just predict how a reader or not the writer like how the reader would feel when they read that. So you have to target that.
So you could predict if someone who feel sad, like, or angry or yeah, and why is the tax coming from, is it And you speak articles? So I I did with different length. So I did headlines and articles Specifically. I used Rapler because Rapper has this really cool feature where you have a mood metre.
Think must be to have something similar about. Basically, the reader is allowed to react with How they feel when they return something. And basically using that, and using the text, I can predict the general trends. In people's emotions and specific words that trigger specific emotions. When i where you getting the data from as it just any newspaper headlines out.
Or if you've got a data set that's been curated that you can I stabled or so I scraped my own yeah which wasn't because I had no experience scripping they never before. But I script it from backflow, the one I mentioned because I needed basically was going to play, what?
It's a regularly wrestlers and news work. He's like PP, you're not complicated. Oh, rackler or a PP l, e r, it's a Philipino. Newspaper article, he's had told me about it. And ambition, what language is the English corpus and English. Well, there's a mix. So there's some in English, some in the Philippines and then some with mix of both, I focused on English.
Um, because i don't have experience with you really make sense for me, but Yeah, it was just because it's a really trust where we newspaper article compared to like, for example, BuzzFeed, which is something else that has like. Yeah, I mean the last few barely has any text of this point.
It's mainly like, pictures and quizzes, so it's like I needed something reliable, where the text actually had, like, you know, could actually elicit some emotion in the reader. Um, so yeah, basically I scraped the newspaper article and it's corresponding user. Provided reaction. And based on that, i like use transfer my models and stuff like that.
To predict the video would feel and then I like focused on explainabilities. So I was trying to explain why like what words triggered the most stuff about And then do. So then how do you evaluate the model that you've built to like show the same headlines to actual people and see how they're reactor you?
I don't have time to actually to think about the problem with that is that my data would be more like I got the data from mapless Rapper so it's really targeted. Well, it's sort of generalizing the average Rapler user. Um, so if I were to just give it to some other individual, it wouldn't be Particularly just like the same link, it would be more accurate if I were to go to the buffalo users and tell them to All right with it.
Which is what the one downside because there's literally, any website that have that feature. There's a few and like the US level and some floor. The article one but you couldn't I couldn't get access to it So by yeah. For that. That's the reason I did explainability because then you could see the trends in what words for grow up and obviously there's new articles all the time.
So I could tell that it was predicting correctly, right? Okay good. So that was not particular proposed yourself or you. So how did you come about? How can tell us about that process of proposing and own project? Yeah so I knew like I've always been interested in psychology Um, and He help people feel and stuff like that.
So because I started in high school as well. So, I went to visa because she, she was our like, professor for the entry AI. And I really like the way she taught. So I knew I wanted to propose to her for the MLP area and then I knew that I was also interested in psychology so I went to her actually and I told her like I wanted to do something to do with psychology and at first I was going to like depression detection like the prediction In text, but that's way over done.
So then we like how to discussion. I worked in with her and I had discussion or trying to see what I could do. That was relatively new and something I'd be interested in and from that we picked up like, emotion prediction, because people tend to predict how the writer felt when they write something.
But barely any research has been done on how the reader will feel when they read what the writer wrote. So that's what I'm saying. So there any salt particular figure words then like you mentioned the words that really depends on emotion because I did emotions. So I can't like But like, what you would think probably like, let me The one weird one was like, pokemon put because some of them Pokémon was apparently a positive ones.
So right, That one was actually quite strong for some reason, but I guess it's because Pokemon go was the thing for a while, especially in COVID. So I guess in the time of COVID, Pokemon Go. Some sort of thing people looks forward to. So we're okay. Yeah, exactly. So, and I was surprised by that.
Yeah. Okay good. All right. So You've done your family project. You've just walked out your last exam, I think. Your graduating next month and drawing a line under three years in Manchester And so, we can look back and say, one thing I wanted to ask you was I'm saying minority report the next bit.
Yes. So It and something, I ask all guests. Is. At the members of my remember of minority groups that you, you know, what you're experience being. So that's when it's as a woman in computing. Yeah. And what's your experience been in the workplace and that university of? What's that been like?
And how could employers perhaps and the university improved And, Computing, as an environment for women to work in, I mean, Thankfully, I've had like a relatively positive experience. I mean at work. In my home, entire office area, I'm not only female there but I hasn't been like a particular like hurdle or anything.
Everyone's been supportive like like any other. And working environ. Yeah. But Oh, yeah. Like I've heard of a lot of people who've had negative experiences, especially Angie my sister. But for me, thankfully, it's been fine. I feel like the biggest hurdle though, is that Whenever I'm in a group project.
I feel like I know it's unconscious but or sometimes it's conscious but usually it's unconscious and I feel like there's this extra step where I have to prove my abilities to every team. I'm in especially my mail comforts. In order to be like, trusted to do the work or trusted with like my opinion And sometimes it's like, I don't know if they realise it.
I think it just like, but I I sense it like I can tell like how unsure they are of my abilities that first, so that's kind of annoying. But I mean, once you prove yourself why not, so you are part of the team and you're accepted. Yeah. But and you it's annoying that I have to deal with that but I feel like, I mean, in any team I feel even if I was in the feeling It would happen.
Some amazing thing is of in because you get, I guess you've done like job interviews at different places that you have any. Yeah, bad experiences as a woman. Yes. Yeah. I had one you just reminded me actually one of my first interview We just have to name any names.
Yeah yeah she want to One of my first interviews ever. I remember I was doing the interview and I was just coding and the interviewers just would not let me answer it. They were just Like convinced that they knew, like, obviously they knew better than I'm like, I'm so unused.
But they would not let me answer, they would just every single time. I say something, they just go ahead and start writing their own thing as if it wasn't my interview, as if they were the ones being interviewed, and I was like, I'm trying to explain it to you because I'm the one being interviewed but they would not let me speak.
I would start writing and every time they just go over me and they would tell me, oh no, you should be doing it like this. I'm like, but I haven't, I haven't even finished the sentence. I haven't finished writing the light of code and they will go over to a point where by the end is not.
I didn't even have the ability to do anything because they just kept Like overpowering me the position, an online technical coding here, It was an online. So you're not in that your your you've got some kind of. It was a camera and like everything you can see each other.
Like it was not miscommunication. I was like, please let me talk. But yeah, that was the one like that was my the most negative experience I've had right in terms. But yeah, giving I got news of interviewings and art anywaysn't it particularly job interviewing giving. Colouring people speak? Yeah, I'm so confused.
I was like, I said, moving interviewed are you supposed to be looking at my skill where you doing it but yeah thankfully like it was a two-point thing. The second one was fine but after the first one I was like I wanted to see don't even want to work here anymore.
If this is what the environment is like. So Okay, good. Any other minorities you want to talk about the women in computing? Cover it? I think mostly. Yeah. Okay. Good. And then. Um, so the next item is For all, I guess they asked them about one tune one podcast, one book, come on film.
So the first one is one tune. So can you recommend a tune for our coda's playlist? And something that's important to you and say a little bit about why that piece of music is important to you. So I really like the song I lived by OneRepublic because Yeah so very uplifting song And I feel like it's like about you know living your life with full list and they played it in my high school, not my graduation because I didn't have a graduation.
But before that when we are Preparing. So I always associate that with, like, finishing degrees or finishing some things. So when I need like to listen something up the thing I really like listening thoughts. And Okay. Good will add that to the list and then one is one pocket.
You listen to me made, maybe, don't listen to podcast costumes. Actually, someone actually mentioned this on a previous podcast, but I I listen to a lot of mango. Um well they also have like a youtube version. It's like a true crime. Podcast. I know it's interesting because i like psychology, right?
So So it's actually real crimes. Yeah, fictional. Yeah, but she says it in like really like yeah, it's true crime but she says it in like a not very negative way. Like it's it's very interesting like she says it in a way that wouldn't make you feel, you know, sad and she like looks at different perspectives and I really like And that she does a lot of research.
She has researchers and everything So she goes into like extreme depth into like the reasons every piece that you need to know and I don't know. I just find it interesting. What kind of why people commit the crime? I mean, she can obviously like she can't tell you the reason exactly if speculation speculating and also not, but she basically like paints the whole picture of everything like their life and like what led to this and like, any conceptual information that you would need to know which I find.
And it's interesting. It's a yeah. Yeah. Okay, so this is interesting. Okay. Um, so the next one is one book. Yeah, but we would like to recommend. Yeah. So invisible by James Patterson. It was actually the book that got me into reading. I don't know how I feel about it now because it was so many years ago.
But And I remember, I don't know, i really liked it because A lot of it's like an action crime here. Um a lot of them don't usually have a female protagonist but that one did and she was like an analyst in FBI so I found it like really cool So it's a novel, it's not a non-fiction so it's fiction.
Yeah, fiction. Um yeah, i like that because it was a few more protagonist and she was like an analyst and FBI soap felt sort of connected like in a way because she was a data analyst. Um, so, but this was years ago before I even thinkers before I even Thought about the computer science.
But yeah, I don't know. I think I just found it. Cool. I was cool to see like a female protagonist. Who's like, taking an active role for crimes. Okay. And then, the last one is a film a film you've recommend. Yeah. So I think about this, There was i watched it a while ago but I still stuck with me.
It was on the basis of sex. It's talking about Ruth, Bader Ginsburg and her battle against Like, sex based discrimination. Um yeah. It was a good movie, right? Okay. Well what that to the well, that's a film list and then the last one here is time. Traveller, I want to imagine I'm you made a time travel machine and you've trouble back in time to 2020 a new meet your formerself.
Three years ago. What advice would you offer yourself and your fellow students about came the most out university? I mean I think the thing I've enjoyed the most And I think that I'll take out the most is like all the extra curricular activities all the volunteering or but like Experience like jog experience that I've had like whether or not go the volunteering experience are passed like I've loved reading possible for like second year answer year.
Surpasses. People don't know as the peer assisted studies games so your you say a little bit about what passes? Yeah, so basically try and help. So second year you're trying to help first years Getting like situated situated in uni and helping them with any struggles. They might have telling them your experience.
And in second year similar, I mean, third-yard similar. But for Some second years. So for first year, I was a past leader. So I was doing a sessions and for Um for past two with my third year, I was like the coordinator but also in computer science is like you're the coordinator and the leader So it's more fun that way.
But yeah, I really enjoyed the new sessions because you are able to like share your advice with everyone and anything you found helpful, you could like share it with them. And it's really nice to see like, your advice and your guidance like actually helping people and then when you see them, like, getting the jobs are getting the internships, it's really nice feeling.
Yeah, okay, good. Um so okay good. So extracricular stuff. Yeah, stuff to do. So I could hear Okay, so I think that's everything. So, thank you, Nadine for joining us. We also know, hang on, we haven't said we've missed one important piece of information out here. So, what are you doing?
What are you doing next? Um so hopefully I'll be going on to do the master's afterwards because yeah, like I told you I'm interested in medical technologies and usually for the Medtech field. Um, You should like continue to take masters. Also, I want more experience with Like going to more depth especially with like NLP and visual computing.
Like I want more experience with those areas. Um, just so yeah, i'm very active areas of research. Yeah. So it's kind of There's lots of activity in in. Not just in industry but also an academia in those areas. So you've what sort of masters degrees have been applying for what kind of subjects just so specialising, an LLP or no, I or because I want both anopee on computer vision, like to continue in both routes.
So I decided to do advanced computer science so that I could just continue. In both because otherwise usually, it's you pick one route, but I didn't like that because I wanted both. So for me, it was Advanced computer sounds, thank you, more flexible. Okay, good. Well, good luck with your future studies.
And we'll see you a graduation next month. Yes, I was your Your energy was telling me that this will be your first graduation. Yeah. Finally, it didn't graduate. I just graduate high school but you didn't have a sort of. Yeah, at least, we got the pictures though, because my school usually did the pictures in like quotes over, which was good, in that sense, because we got it before COVID.
You know up? Yeah and I think I think I graduation's nice because That when you walk out, you walk down your last exam last week, and in some ways is a bit of an anti-climax, because it doesn't really draw a line under it, just Peter's out at the end.
Yeah. And you're like always that it and actually it's not until you graduate that you're like, right? This is finished. I'm done here. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a almost there. Yeah. Small sense of purple and then July. Okay, good. Well Thank you for coming. Thank you for joining us and we'll look forward to seeing you next one.
Thank you. To stop recording. Yeah, right. So was okay. I think. Yeah, good. Thank you for what? So thanks again. Sorry if I ramble? No, that's okay. So I That's about right. Actually I I mean, i don't want to interrupt too much, right? Because when I let you do the talking sometimes people talk a lot and you don't really want to butt in.
It's time. So that's it. Anyone but anything wrong about just Yeah. I'm really helped actually skipping keeping to time. Let's skipping that. We see Bit. Because I literally, I looked that it was looking at the questions yesterday and like, when you sent me initially, and then I was like, I don't know, like what would I do if I was advice chats.
They're not. Like, thank God. I'm not. I know you mean it's difficult to like, because you like, you say such a long way away from where, what you're always feels like a long way away. Yeah, you're doing to all of those chances doing but actually You know, the It.
There is a connection there. Yeah. What what happens at the top does have an impact on? On. What you're doing at anyway saying stuff about you know, software licences for things. Oh yeah, that's true. Like grabberly and over and yeah. Okay, that's true. That's a good point. Good talking to you.
That's recording. Little bit, my phone inside that.
So, let's start recording. So, anything else you want to say about being the woman in computing? What you're experience at? That's been. Yes, I previously I said that I haven't experienced a lot of like adversity, but the more reflect on it, the more I realised. That over time, I sort of block it out or a lot of the comments that are made.
I sort of, I don't know. I guess I passed them by as like jokes or maybe there's just like not that educated or like they just don't realise like a micro regression. Yeah seems small but in when you sum when you add the more up their significant. Yeah. Exactly.
Like at the time they don't seem like such a big deal to me and I think over time I just I'm kind of numb to it like I just somehow don't know this Um, but then when I think back and then I like add them all together, it's much bigger than I realised.
Like I remember the first thing, which I honestly, like forget about sometimes that the first latent like, like ever say, I felt was actually in high school and my Like so I said that, I studied like HHL physics HR math and there's only luck for five girls in a class for that and I'm boys.
Like 20, 25 or something in our class. Up because it's like spit into multiple classes and And I remember we'd always like respond. Like we respond to the questions that are teacher, would it? Ask a question, read respond. And I was always so like weird out by the fact that the rest of the males in our class seem to ignore the comments or answers that we provided and then they put their hand up and say the exact same thing as if we hadn't said it and I just did like, huh?
And I guess over time I got used to it. So I never really thought about it until I got so bad, the point where the teacher he had to call them out and be like, you need to listen to the rest of the females in the class was just teach a male or female of interest right Now.
It's good days but today yeah, some people don't even spotted. Yes, exactly. I wish I was actually surprised because like something you. Yeah, I was suppressed because he's part of it. I got numb to it so I didn't really realise after a while but it got so bad that he literally called the Mount.
And I after that point I got better because it was just it was crazy to meals. Like you really not hear me like I. Yeah. And then um, And it happens. Still actually on we have like a group chat. Like what's up group chat for like the year and anytime anyone would ask for advice or like, ask a question, and you do provide a response whenever it's like, I know whenever I'd respond or one of my like, like my friends responds, It's like, it's as if we didn't respond and then there will be a good guy who would take literally the same thing?
I want comment later. I'd be like, oh, thanks bro. Like, thanks for help. I'm like It was the she like, it's the message is right there. It's not like I said something, and you didn't hear it. It's the message is printed on WhatsApp is right there. And then sometimes I would give like the answer and then a male would give the clearly incorrect answer clearly incorrect and they'd be like, oh yeah, thanks, I think you're right.
Like to the guy and I'm like Like, am i that insignificant to the point where I literally stopped replying? I stopped answering because it would. It's felt like so demean. It was like my opinion didn't matter and I was just trying to help Like I was trying to like help the person would give them answer something but they would ignore me as if my opinion wasn't valid or my answer was just incorrect And I was like, okay you know like why am I helping when clearly my opinion is not valid for you.
So that was like yeah. And it happens to quite a few people. I know. So that I just don't respond anymore. And yeah. What did you think? So I'm what could you universities do or what could? I don't know if it happens in a working by him as well.
What should employers do about? You know, addressing these sorts of things. I think on the problem is some of it. Like, I know it's unconscious, you know, And I feel like the only way that it becomes conscious is if they're called out for it. Like, if it comes to central, like what happened with my school, when my, the teacher like, he called them out, and then they start actually realising that they were doing it.
And like, It hurts but at the same time sometimes okay, like maybe don't realise but then once it's come to their attention at that point I'm like I can't like sometimes I give them excuses like in a way I shouldn't but I give people the benefit of the belt like oh maybe they just don't be realise.
You know. Anyway. Weren't listening? Yeah. And I'm like, you know, maybe societies made them this way. Like I can't do anything about it, but then after it's come to their attention and someone's pointed out at that point. It's like Like, I've given you the benefit of the doubt and you didn't, You obviously aren't so.
Yeah, but it's really like it. Yeah, annoying, especially the one thing in unique like the most, like I said, like, you have to prove yourself, which honestly continues forever. But the one thing I've also really seen it with even with my friends, like, my male friends is when it's hiring season and especially in this, a calling me when it's so competitive.
The amount of times when I get someone who's like, oh, you got it? Because you're a diversity, higher. And I'm like, so, like my work, everything I do is now, The minimise the little toured and it's minimised to my gender. It's not even my effort anymore and then I don't get it.
Oh, it's like you're in good enough. Like you. It's your, it's my fault that I didn't get it because I'm not good enough. I get it. It's because your diversity So no matter what I do. My work isn't worth anything. It just my gender and then it's like, when I don't get it, it's because my work's not good enough, but when I do get it, it's just because you're gender.
I'm like, then when is my we're gonna be appreciated or like putting an equivalent level as those of my male colleagues. And then I, the thing is, it's so shocking. When you get it even from your friends, especially when it's competitive. It's like it's like the adversity comes out most in a competitive environment and it's like at that.
Yeah. Like I try to I didn't get obviously because you're a female. And I'm like did you never did never pass your like you do never consider the fact that I could just be Better than you. I'd like this certain thing like why is that so shocking like why doesn't have to be?
I got the interview because I'm a female and it seems like, you know, like research has shown that there's algorithmic bias like there is, especially in the male dominated fields, algorithmically, our CVs are like, as a female in some places. My CV's actually less likely to be accepted just because I have a female name.
But yeah, that just is overlooked. And the only thing people look at is your female. It's a diversity higher and the shocking thing, is it continues? Even like further on, like I've seen it with my mum and because she's like, a electrical electronic engineer. Even then, when she when you go up senior level manager, she still guesses saying sort of comments.
And you would think after proving yourself which is something, I don't know why those a female's have to do like after proving yourself so many years which is sad that we have to do that They still can't like acknowledge or work for what it is and it's like we're minimised to just our gender which is extremely annoying and when you get to the point where you do point it out, it's like you're proving that you're being so emotional, you shouldn't get.
So Affected by this and then when you don't it's your fault for not bringing it up and a male colleague would have brought it up and that's why you're not getting that a quality of determ because you're not bringing it up, you bring it up, you're emotional. You're proving their point.
I'm like. So when do I win, When does my work become equivalent in value? And one the my comments and my like, Like my perception and my input become valuable and not just me being emotional. I'm like, at what point do I win? Like, there's no way to win, it's either.
I don't get it. I don't get the job. I get it. I'm at the diversity higher. I, I like identify that there's some sort of sexism happening. I'm emotional. I'm proving their point when are emotional? I don't point it out. Oh, you should have pointed out a mail. Colleague would have done that.
That's why you're not getting equal like treatment unlike So there's no way for me to work and the thing is like, I'm lucky to have grown up in household. That's like very empowering with like a strong female like in stem role model like my mum. And my dad's like a very supportive male also in stem and like I haven't faced like a verse my household and my family as well.
Like we have so many Females and stem. So I felt like I guess when I entered I thought okay it's 2023. Like, it must be better, you know? Like at this point like of course like people are aware. Now people know that there's unconscious bias people are aware of all these facts and yet I just At some point it seems like they're not like I'm glad like in my workplace it they are but it just a small microaggressions that add up.
And the sad thing is you start like I start to realise that like you internalise those misogynistic comments and like when you let them pass, especially because now I've been so numb to them, that it's like I can't help them imposter syndrome. I can't help that the company like, did I actually get accepted for the job because I'm at diversity higher?
Or is actually because of my work line out every single time I get anything. I'm like, questioning was it because of my gender, or is it actually, because of my hard work? Like I can't. Yeah. Okay, it's tough. So I guess the way forward really is, is you say to have it called out, is that?
Yeah, if you don't call it, then it was just going to carry on. And the thing is it actually like Some psychology is proven because of the internalised misogyny. The unconscious bias is also a lot for a lot from women towards other women. Like it's not just for girls And Oh, and that's what makes it even more sad.
It's like, it's going to the point where because it's so normalised The women have internalised that so much that their view of other women has become. So the means so it's like you have to call out everyone at this point. But the same time you don't want to be emotionalized or your.
You don't want to be a victim like you don't want a victimise yourself because we aren't victims. It just At some point, people are just not conscious of what they're doing, I guess. And I just sap because you would think in like this veinage things would have gotten better which they have they really have especially, like, with opportunities for women to work and etc.
But It's still there. And yeah, the sad thing is you block it out now? Like you just get so used to it and all these comments just become like jokes but they're really not, you know. So okay, well thank you for sharing that because I think it's important that we Tell these stories and keep telling them.
And so that the message gets out there to both men and women. So Thanks for sharing that. Is there anything else you want to say about that week? We covered it. No I mean just don't judge a book by its covering, you know, I have going comments being like you don't look intelligent.
I'm like what do you mean? Is that supposed to be a compliment? It's mean, what about my face is like not intelligent? Like what does that even mean? Like you know let someone prove them themselves first before you make any judgements over there, abilities. I think it's fair to say we've still got a long way to go in especially in the tech industry.
I think in terms of yeah issues. Yeah I mean now they have a lot of events you know, for supporting and like I appreciate those but you can't help that unconscious. Bye. Okay, Great. Thank you. Thank you. So that i think i covers it and yes to that. I'll splice that in and put the transcription as well.